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 d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons

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redneckhouston
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 1:56 am

Deacon wrote:
Holy shit. Only $300 a tire?

Now I wish I had just gone ahead and replaced my axles altogether, as I'm not sure the D30 could handle 40's even if the S35 could... Those would be perfect. Ah well. I'll wear out these 35" KM2's first and then see where I am.



deacon, i really don't mean to be offensive or a dick but......

a s35 is not enough axle for 35's much less 37's or 40's......it has a tenny tiny ring gear and tiny tubes, chromolly , big splines i don't care....the housing itself is weak as crap, and the low pinion d30 in the tj is a joke, even with a super kit it has the same problems as a s35/d35

this is not my opinion , this is tried and true fact.

if you are running a d30/d35 with 35's or bigger and are not breaking parts everytime out then you really are not wheeling hard enough to warrent needing 35's.....


now for a mainly dd/mall crawler/ fire road wheeler 40's on a d30 is pimpin

for 40's consider a severly built d44 (gussets/sleaves/longfields/ etc) or a d60 or 609 the minimum for hardcore wheeling

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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 10:30 am

redneckhouston wrote:
deacon, i really don't mean to be offensive or a dick but......
No problem. Ignorance is excusable, even if it's shouted Smile

I never said the D30 or S35 were capable of standing up to 40's. I specifically noted that I was disappointed, knowing they wouldn't. That said, you're wrong about the S35 being "not enough axle for 35's..." I can understand why you might think that, especially knowing the poor reputation the D35 has for handling sharp dynamic loads, but reality hasn't borne that out.

Quote :
this is not my opinion , this is tried and true fact.
Well, no, it's not. At best, you could say maybe, "this is my educated guess...." I look forward to wheeling with you some time. Lurking in that gruff exterior of yours is, I'm sure, a reasonable man who might be willing to admit that maybe the S35 kit's stronger than you thought, at least after you've seen it get along just fine.

Quote :
if you are running a d30/d35 with 35's or bigger and are not breaking parts everytime out then you really are not wheeling hard enough to warrent needing 35's.....
That's not actually true, no. The size of the tire really has more to do with the size of the ledges you're tackling and such rather than how hard you're romping on the skinny pedal and how much you enjoy hopping the axle. But even then, no, it's fine. 37's would probably be pushing it, granted, an I don't plan to actually move beyond 35's for a long time unless I get impatient AND a shitload of cash all at the same time, but that's unlikely. If I ever do decide to move up, I'll be going with a high pinion 60 in the back, maybe a 9-inch in the front, but that's all stuff to be determined if and when I ever cross that bridge.
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 10:41 am

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terrahawk
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 6:06 pm

Reality may not have borne that out yet, but it will, ask Cody how great his held up on that little bunny slope he tried climbing at Longs. Bottom line, the D35 is a crappy axle regardless of how much money you throw at it. A HP JK Dana 30 is pretty decent for 35's, but you will still grenade lots of stock u-joints and shafts if you wheel it hard, and if your redneckhouston you'll even wipe out the chromos. Smile Mine only lasted because I was really timid on the petrol pedal and ultimately died when I smacked a K-rail. RIP Sad

The below breakage specs for common heavier duty axles, as posted previously by redneckhouston, should give you a bit more of what you are up against.

Quote :
now here is the braking point of alot of common axle shafts......these figures are from bobby long at longfield
PRODUCT ............................................ FT.LB. TORQUE.... Deg. of TWIST

Yukon 4340 Dana 60 35 spline short side axle.........12,000......130
Stock Dana 60 35 spline short side axle ..................6,500........35
Yukon 4340 Dana 44 30 spline short side axle ..........5,800 .......35
Stock dana 44 30 spline.......................................5,000 ........35
Yukon 4340 Birfield Eliminator kit (ear failure)............5,500.......50
Longfield Toy 4340 30 spline (shaft failure)...............8,500.......175
Longfield Toy 4340 27 spline..................................6,500..... ..75
Stock Toyota Birfield.......................................... ..4,200 ......45
Stock Toyota Inner Axle........................................5,000 .......45
All Pro "Profield".................................... .... .......... 3,500 ......30

TJ Rubi Longfield front...........................................6, 800.......75
TJ Rubi Superior front (shaft failure).........................5,800........40
TJ Rubi US Alloy front............................................5 ,000........40
TJ Rubi Yukon front............................................. .4,100........50
TJ Rubi stock front (ear failure)...............................2,500...... ..10
TJ Rubi stock front (ear failure)...............................2,000...... ..10

hmm.........stock shaft break at about 25% of total output....given 100% traction(never happen)...........
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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 6:30 pm

Which Cody are we talking about who broke a Super35 kit in a TJ with 35's?

Nowhere in that chart is the Super35 (with or without C-clip Eliminator, which doesn't really do much for strength) or even just generic Superior Evolution series chromo shafts.
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terrahawk
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 7:11 pm

Deacon wrote:
Which Cody are we talking about who broke a Super35 kit in a TJ with 35's?

Nowhere in that chart is the Super35 (with or without C-clip Eliminator, which doesn't really do much for strength) or even just generic Superior Evolution series chromo shafts.

That list is of common heavier duty axles that a person who pushes it would use or spend $$$to upgrade. The D30 isn't on there either.

Cody = mudpuppy on a JK with 35's on a JK D35.

Ask Marshall too, he has experience breaking one of those turds in a TJ.

Regardless, it's just a bad axle to spend a lot of money on to upgrade, especially when you could pick up a 44 relatively cheap.
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TxCrawler
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 10:42 pm

I have experience with the puny weak TJ D35....
mine broke twice....

1 busted axle shaft on 33's, open diff... stock 3.73 gears
grenaded spider gears on 33's, open diff ... stock 3.73 gears


as the old phrase goes, you can't polish a turd.....(unless you are on mythbusters) no matter how much money you put into the D35 it's a POS, just a more expensive POS. The axle is better off used as a boat anchor, and even then it would still break.
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TxCrawler
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 10:52 pm

Deacon wrote:
If I ever do decide to move up, I'll be going with a high pinion 60 in the back, maybe a 9-inch in the front, but that's all stuff to be determined if and when I ever cross that bridge.

May I ask why you would put a 9" in the front and a HP60 in the rear. Do you even know what is required to do this, or are you talking a custom (insert aftermarket axle manufacturer) built axle?
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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 11:29 pm

terrahawk wrote:
Cody = mudpuppy on a JK with 35's on a JK D35.

Ask Marshall too, he has experience breaking one of those turds in a TJ.
Heh, like I said, the D35 has some weaknesses. The S35 (with C-clip eliminator) addresses most of those issues. I like having a smaller pumpkin that doesn't drag its ass like an 8.8 would, for instance. I may eventually screw something up, but none of the internals are the same as the D35.

Quote :
Regardless, it's just a bad axle to spend a lot of money on to upgrade, especially when you could pick up a 44 relatively cheap.
I keep hearing this, but nobody's ever been able to come up with a cheap D44. Besides, barring some sort of gift horse, if I ever actually swap out the whole axle, I'm going to go high pinion, something along the line of Currie's HP60 RockJock III.
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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 11:34 pm

TxCrawler wrote:
as the old phrase goes, you can't polish a turd...
Sigh. lolz more like TURDY five am i rite!!

The only components of the axle that remain are the housing and tubes. New Evolution series shafts with 30 splines (rolled, not cut), new Eaton E-Locker (full-case, replaces carrier, spider gears, etc), new Superior ring and pinion gears, all with a 2-year warranty.


TxCrawler wrote:
May I ask why you would put a 9" in the front and a HP60 in the rear. Do you even know what is required to do this, or are you talking a custom (insert aftermarket axle manufacturer) built axle?
It would be a custom setup, created for the purpose of putting under a TJ for crawling with big ol' tires. It's all dreams and conjecture regardless, as I have no particular plans to do that, yet. If I eventually decide to move up to 40's, for instance, I'd cross that bridge. For now I'm good.



Look, I know I don't have any status as an "authority" on the subject that everyone will immediately bow to, but I've done a lot of research on both this and the 8.8 swap, listened to the nay-sayers and the evangelists, talked on the phone with the rather opinionated, pull-no-punches guy who actually invented the S35 kit for Superior originally before Yukon and others knocked it off (he might even be a bigger asshole than you, George Wink), and he freely admitted that it's only worthwhile up to a point. He helped advise me, and I eventually came to the decision that for now the S35 with C-clip eliminator would be the way to go for me. I have yet to regret that decision.
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terrahawk
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Thu 10 Sep 2009, 11:50 pm

D,

If you do it you better truss that sucker, because that see saw housing is going to flex, for lack of a better word, and break all that cool Super 3r stuff you just bought. We're not trying to be all high and mighty, just trying to save you some money and frustration. Hell, I'm nowhere near an expert, I just listen, watch, and learn.

Nobody on pirate would seriously run a D35 built up or otherwise, and certainly wouldn't recommend you do so. Those guys, redneck is one of them, are the experts.

Oh, and that Rock Jock sucks monkey balls!
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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Fri 11 Sep 2009, 12:02 am

Just because some dude on Pirate's got bigger balls and bragging rights out of it doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Most bashing of the S35 comes from people who've never run it and probably have never seen it run, either.

Here's a question for you, out of curiosity: would you run a stock TJ D44 with 35's?

And I assume you're joking about the RockJock 60. Right? Smile

I've considered a truss, actually, and I may eventually do that. I'm toying with the idea of going 4-link, at that point, but it's all just sort of bored-brain daydreaming for than serious thought at the moment. But part of my plan is to keep things light, too. The aluminum tank skid (that's held up marvelously) weighs only 3 pounds more than stock. I'm planning on adding aluminum corners, as well, with aluminum body-mounted rocker guards (with a stainless steel slider), and the tube fenders will have aluminum inner fenders to keep from going too far overboard. Same with the eventual tummy tuck. And I'll probably wheel with the spare off the carrier most of the time, too.

Then again, even if I bend the tube, it's not like you can't find a D35 around to slap everything back into, right? Wink
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Fri 11 Sep 2009, 8:52 pm

Dude when I switch axles I'll GIVE YOU my D35, why because i killed the new era jk 35 which if you noticed only hit a total of 2000 jeeps in texas and maybe 25000 nation wide. The whole thing bout Pirate is that all those guys have seen what forces any axle u throw out there can handle from AMC 20s to rockwells and most likely broke everyone in between.

The biggest problem I know with the 35 is not the shafts them selfs in the tubes that are around them. If you did your research then u should know that the tubes will bend under load and cause the shaft to seize up and either break the tube of the shaft.

Cheap dana 44, wreaked JK simple, hell you can get a d30, d44 combo from daveysjeeps for like 3 grand shipped if you catch them at the right time.

TJ D44 with 35's, hell yea I'd run them but I would be upgrading them ASAP and be super easy on them till then. And yes the RockJock aint that great after you do your research and look at the conditions you wheel in.

Like I said you got a free D35 if you want it from me for trail spares BUT you gotta stay on rednecks ass at longs if you wanna prove your chit is strong enough, its not like you wont have the spares to fix it all right

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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Fri 11 Sep 2009, 9:52 pm

Dude. Cody. I think you're missing something, here.

MudHound wrote:
Like I said you got a free D35 if you want it from me for trail spares
I can't use them. The axle I've got under my rear end doesn't have c-clips. And it has a higher spline count. And the shaft diameter is different. I have two D35 shafts sitting in my garage. What do you think got replaced? I can't use them as spares. I don't need them as spares.


Quote :
you gotta stay on rednecks ass at longs if you wanna prove your chit is strong enough, its not like you wont have the spares to fix it all right
I have no idea what George is running, much less what kind of driver he is. His rig may well be able to tackle obstacles mine can't, due purely to mechanical limitations. Or maybe I'll be able to keep right up on his back. No idea. This isn't a fucking competition, and I think it's silly that I'll have to prove myself, but that's cool. I guess that'll help me learn to be a better driver, and being a newbie that's always a good thing. But my dick won't shrivel a single inch if he's able to climb some obstacle I can't. If I can't, it won't be because my axle is broken. I'll be because his rig is built to a higher level than mine, because he's a better driver than me, or a combination of the two.

The real problem is that you're asking me to prove an axle's innocence. At what point will you be satisfied that, while everything can be broken, this isn't just another D35? More importantly, why should I care what you're willing to accept?
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Fri 11 Sep 2009, 9:57 pm

Ya'll bitch a lot lol. Drive that bitch til it breaks. Who gives a shit if you got a d35 or a d60. If it gets you over the obstacle, it just did it's job.
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 2:31 am

MudHound wrote:
And yes the RockJock aint that great after you do your research and look at the conditions you wheel in.




huh?........please share your opinion of the r.j.

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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 2:39 am

I'm pretty curious about that myself.
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 9:15 am

MudHound wrote:
...BUT you gotta stay on rednecks ass at longs if you wanna prove your chit is strong enough...

LOL, not its not a comp and just remember this was Cody not Geo's quote. Geo's shit ain't strong enough for him. Hell I stay on his ass about upgrading...lol My only concern for Geo at Long's is that he pace himself and do the inevitable big break on Sunday...not Friday night or Saturday! Mucho funner when hes able to continue with us.

YA GOT THAT GEORGE! and along those same lines, lets make sure ALL your work is completed a day BEFORE the trip...so ya'll can roll out with the group..lol

alright back on topic for ya'll now
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 9:35 am

TxRubiRig wrote:


LOL, not its not a comp and just remember this was Cody not Geo's quote. Geo's shit ain't strong enough for him. Hell I stay on his ass about upgrading...lol My only concern for Geo at Long's is that he pace himself and do the inevitable big break on Sunday...not Friday night or Saturday! Mucho funner when hes able to continue with us.

YA GOT THAT GEORGE! and along those same lines, lets make sure ALL your work is completed a day BEFORE the trip...so ya'll can roll out with the group..lol


AMEN to everything you just said!!! :driving: :punk:
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terrahawk
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 9:56 am

I assume Cody is speaking of mud and he shear weight of the things...don't know what else he might be referring to.
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Deacon
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 10:39 am

How would a RockJock weigh more than a generic full size 60? I took it to mean that the RJ was worse than other one-ton options, because they're lower quality or...something. I don't know.
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 11:51 am

He mentioned "conditions you wheel in" , so other than that , I have no idea. Other than not being painted, those suckers are bad ass.
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sat 12 Sep 2009, 4:22 pm

anything will break if you abuse it enough. if not, why would ppl need to move up to rockwells? driver's finesse has alot to do with survivability. my d30 has held up under what i've subjected it to. but i don't get as crazy ass as some of you fools(cough... cody....cough.... my jeep made it easily up the tiny outcropping that grenaded his d35....).

decon's new, will probably take it easy for a while and be overly cautious about how he drives and what he attempts. This will ensure his d35 lasts a good while. by the time he gets experience and starts trying the really hard, crazy stuff and starts beating on his heep, he'll be ready to upgrade when the d35 craps out on him.

that's my plan and why i upgraded my d30 instead of jumping into a front d44. right now with an ARB & chromo shafts i'm set for a while. my weak spot is the ring & pinion. so i do what i know i can and ease up on the stuff i don't think my jeep can handle. if i can't make progress before the jeep really really starts to hop, then i'll back down. I still need to find the $$$$ to get chromo shafts for the rear and and ARB back there to match the front.

D, once you start really getting on it, the d35 likely won't hold up. but, who knows. maybe you'll pick the right line. why did everyone else make it up the waterfall my F'n rim got bent on which ended my wheeling????? so many factors determine who makes it up an obstacle and who get F'kd on the exact same one.


(look D, i can write a novel too )


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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sun 13 Sep 2009, 8:01 pm

Do you understand that I don't have a D35 anymore?
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PostSubject: Re: d35 and super 35 axles pros and cons   Sun 13 Sep 2009, 9:13 pm

????? then WTF is this whole thread about??? you got rid of the d35 or just ugraded to a super 35 kit???
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